Interesting video comparing low F correction mechanisms

Posted on Youtube today by Michael Lowenstern. Compares Buffet, Selmer, Uebel and Backun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7XaKJTZle0

Mark

I would suspect that the Uebel Zenit WITH the thumb trigger would be best but Michael doesn't have one.


Actually I've seen some folks with a custom thumb trigger mechanism employed on the Yamaha CSG. Those have a full sized bell tone hole and would be by far the most in tune.




..............Paul Aviles

What's wrong with just building an old fashioned full-boehm? Or one could leave off the additional upper keys and just add the low Eb. The low F on my Leblanc Symphonie III full boehm is perfectly in tune. And the low Eb key actually produces a very nicely in tune middle Bb. It would require a little bit more wood, but would solve the problem nicely and be much simpler than some of what I see in this video.

Why reinvent the wheel?

Full Boehm system doesn’t inherently solve the problem, this is more of an issue with the bore flare. For example, the BCXXI has a low Eb like a full Boehm but due to the “German” flare in the lower joint the 12ths are awful. My Full Boehm R13 also has a flat low F, about the same as a standard R13.

-JDbassplayer

My old Yamaha CSGIII's had the low E/F mechanism. It saved my rear when we played Shostakovich 5 in the orchestra and I was playing 2nd. There is a chorale in the third movement where the low E/F really need to balance the 1st and bassoon/contra. In many recordings the 2nd is either out of tune or playing very softly to push up those notes.

I think the Yamaha version is the best because the low correction mechanism can also raise the F sharp and even the G a little when needed. I was surprised that the Buffet version didn't have any effect on even the F sharp.

Holes in the bells aren't good. They cause the clarinet to feel stuffy like there is leak (because there really is, its the hole in the bell).

James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra

Interesting that you say that about the Uebel Superior (the hole in the bell). I really wanted to like this horn but I always preferred their model just below it, the Advantage which does not have a hole in the bell.





..............Paul Aviles

Buffet's low F correction key vent is in the wrong place - it's below the F/C tonehole instead# of above it where it would have more of an effect and would help raise a flat low F#.

Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010

Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes

NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.

The opinions I express are my own.

Which of the mechs help with flat low E?

MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com

For Boehm, the only low E corrections are the optional key on the Uebel Zenit and the custom one I've seen done for the Yamaha CSGs by the Yamaha New York shop.




..............Paul Aviles

Shops such as Leitner Kraus or Dietz will be able to build a custom made thumb correction mechanisms with correctly positioned hole on a new bell.

>> For Boehm, the only low E corrections are the optional key on the Uebel Zenit and the custom one I've seen done for the Yamaha CSGs by the Yamaha New York shop. <<

The Selmer Muse has an option of both low F and low E correction keys. It's not default but it's not a custom option either, they come in both versions. I'm not sure whether the current Privilege also has that option now that they started making it for the Muse... but maybe.

On the Henri Selmer Paris website all I am seeing is the one, Low F correction key for either the Muse Bb or A clarinet. Is there a different place to find the Low E correction key?




..............Paul Aviles

>> On the Henri Selmer Paris website all I am seeing is the one, Low F correction key for either the Muse Bb or A clarinet. Is there a different place to find the Low E correction key? <<

I've seen it on an actual clarinet. I'm not sure where you looked but this page shows photos of both the low F and low E correction keys: https://www.selmer.fr/en/products/clarinette-sib-muse

oooooh


I'd say that you need the hole on the bell to vent Low E correctly! Selmer providing only a half measure.




...............Paul Aviles

Selmer and Yamaha both have the same mechanism on their current models, only Yamaha has a W-shaped insert in the low E vent hole to reduce hiss and Selmer have fitted a tall tonehole bush to lengthen the vent to reduce the hiss.

Ideally the low E vent should be a full size tonehole on the bell below the level of the socket as you'd see on Oehler systems, so both Yamaha and Selmer are settling for a less costly compromise.

Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010

Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes

NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.

The opinions I express are my own.

>> I'd say that you need the hole on the bell to vent Low E correctly! Selmer providing only a half measure. <<

It might not be absolutely ideal but many thing are on a clarinet, like the register vent, etc. I've tried the Muse with those extra keys and they do help significantly with those notes in pp/ff for those who prefer to have that option.

Regardless of where the keys are I'd rather not have them, but they do what they are meant to do pretty well. I prefer the Privilege model anyway.

A bit curious that in the photo showing the keys the E/B spring is not placed correctly in its cradle and they left the photo...

Are there any shops/techs in the US that retrofit correction mechanisms to clarinets? Anyone have any experience getting this done?

Levi Tracy in DC.

James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra

>> For Boehm, the only low E corrections are the optional key on the Uebel Zenit and the custom one I've seen done for the Yamaha CSGs by the Yamaha New York shop. <<

Buffet offers/used to offer a low E correction mechanism on their Tosca B-flat/maybe A clarinet. The optional keywork has a mechanism on the bell of the instrument.

I really wish everyone would stop venting!

(See what I did there? )

Before we do that I found that the Buffet website shows a Mopane Tosca with the F correction as standard but it is optional in African Blackwood. If you have an image or link to the E correction key (pad on bell) I'd love to see that!





...............Paul Aviles

Paul Aviles wrote:

> Before we do that I found that the Buffet website shows a
> Mopane Tosca with the F correction as standard but it is
> optional in African Blackwood. If you have an image or link to
> the E correction key (pad on bell) I'd love to see that!
>
>
>
>
>
> ...............Paul Aviles
>

Paul Aviles wrote:

> Before we do that I found that the Buffet website shows a
> Mopane Tosca with the F correction as standard but it is
> optional in African Blackwood. If you have an image or link to
> the E correction key (pad on bell) I'd love to see that!
>
>
>
>
>
> ...............Paul Aviles
>

these are what I could find

Yes, that's wonderful! Thank you so much. I can imagine that most of us have never seen this.





................Paul Aviles